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janej

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December 4, 2007

I have just posted an article which I received through my email in my blog:
(Can't post it here because it is quite lengthy and it is probably not the right place to post it unless Jane does not mind.)

http://taotraveller.blogspot.com/

The article which is written by Valarie Hunt. She is a researcher in a field of study known as BioEnergy Fields. The article is a "must read" for practitioners of qi gong and those who are into energy healing.

HYLT!
Kian Tee
Life is more abundant!
顶端 Posted: 2008-05-05 20:00 | 50 楼
janej

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December 12, 2007
I posted a message to the zhineng qigong group run by Ooi Kean Hin but I guess he found it inappropriate to publish it in his site. Therefore I will publish it here for it concerns Mr. Ooi's view on the ZBE/THCMM. Here it is:

Quote:
Date:    Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:12:41 -0800 (PST)
From:    "KianTee Lim" <lkt56@yahoo.com>  Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book  Add Mobile Alert
Subject:    Re: [zhineng_qigong] Lower Dantian
To:    zhineng_qigong@yahoogroups.com
Hi,
I find this discussion most interesting. I am a serious practitioner of ZQ as well as Msater Liu's ZBE/THCMM and therefore I would like to share my experience with everyone.

1. "However the middle channel as introduced by Mr Liu is a mentally created tube of qi." - This is not correct. The practice of ZBE/THCMM does NOT employ any mental visualization. The practitioner merely carries out the gong as prescribed by Master Liu. In other words... "Just Do It."

2. A crucial (and perhaps, more controversial) element in the practice of ZBE/THCMM is the "Tao Field". "Qi Field" as I understand contains only information whereas the "Tao Field" has the added dimension of "Power". The power said to be added into the qi field and hence the term, "Tao Field". While one may ague whether Master Liu indeed has the ability to add the dimension of "Power" to the "qi field"; it cannot be denied that power can be added to an energy field. For instance, "Mantras" or "Words of Power" can be created by an enlightened master. How an enlightened attaches power to words (to produce mantras) is by writing these words when he has an "utterly void mind".

3. Finally, just to share my own experience. I have definitely benefited from the ZBE and THCMM gongs having faithfully practiced it initially as a supplement to ZQ and finally making it a main daily "gong" for a total of something like seven months now. By practicing ZBE/THCMM on for my own daily practice (about 1 to 2 hours a day) and ZQ together with my ZQ group for two days a week... I find that I have certainly made a huge improvement in my LCUPCD and XSZ. I have also found my third level practice (Wu Yuan Zhuang) greatly enhanced as a result of ZBE/THCMM but I had to put my "Wu Yuan Zhuang" on hold for the moment as I had experienced tremendous emotional reactions.

4. I am sure it is not mental creation... Certainly..., during the online group practice, especially in the early stages of starting ZBE/THCMM, I had experienced strong "energy field" during group practice.

5. In conclusion, I personally recommend keeping an open mind. Remember: "An open mind is able to embrace all possibilities." It is important in our mind cultivation (a very important aspect of ZQ practice), that we do not falsely believe that only our practice is superior to all others and thus close our mind from everything else. More importantly, we should not "scorn others" for to do so can only indicate that we are too proud of ourselves and think ourselves as superior to others. To prevent ourselves from falling into this false believe, I would like to quote an excerpt from the daily meditations: "365 Tao" by Deng Ming Dao which goes like this:

Quote:
The journey of humanity is the journey from ignorance to enlightenment. It's like an endless march of souls through eternity. If you are standing in an infinitely long line of souls, how can you say that your position is superior to others? When there is no head and no end to the line, it doesn't matter what place you hold. Therefore it is foolish to look down on those standing behind. They now occupy the place where you once stood. Instead of pride, you should feel compassion. If you cannot remember this, just think of all the people ahead of you. You aspire to their place, and you should work diligently.
Unquote.

"Hun yuan ling tong!"

Kian Tee


Ooi Kean <okhpen@yahoo.com> wrote:

    1. While most forms of qigong have their dantians at a level lower than navel it doesn't mean there is no other forms having it at navel level. "Song of 13-Stance" of Taiji has clearly indicated that at least the original Taiji has the lower dantian at mingmen-navel level. Sadly, many modern taiji practitioners and teachers do not have any idea about this at all.

    2. ZQ is a human science. And centre for bodily qi or lower dantian is most natural at mingmen-navel level. So we have it there. Human comes from society and as a human science ZQ does not create anything image inside the body in our practice.

    3. Most of the teachings on middle channel (central meridian) and dantians (vital centres) opening of Mr Liu are on mental creations, which is very much away from the teaching of ZQ that is based on natural human study. The middle channel in ZQ will only be there when we reach a level whereby the hunyuan palace is open. The ZQ channel is not the same as in the Daoist or Tibetan Buddhist or other forms whereby they work through a lot of internal visualization (mentally created qi tube). In ZQ this channel could only be achieved through practice and also cultivation of daode (how we function as a human in society - not quite just morality) However the middle channel as introduced by Mr Liu is a mentally created tube of qi.

    4. Mr Liu has claimed that he created the breathing exercise and sort of a break-through. He has also claimed that he has further developed ZQ. However similar exercise is found in the ZQ book Essence of Qigong. Even the name breathing exercise "huxicao" was mentioned there.

    5. To those who finds Mr Liu's teaching useful, go ahead with it. However bear in mind that that is not pure ZQ anymore. And I strongly suggest those who follow that to compare their progress with correct ZQ exercises. Check your progress on mental and physical health. Because what I have witnessed recently is not encouraging.

    6. Mr Liu can teach anything he wants and we could support anybody's teaching that we find interesting. However let ZQ be ZQ. Just hope that Mr Liu will just name whatever his creation in any name other then Zhineng Qigong.

    Hun Yuan Ling Tong
    Kean Hin

    Schlotzhauer Axel <axelschlotzhauer@ gmail.com> wrote:

        Pang Ming formed in the original Transmission of Zhineng Qigong a special place for the lower dantian no other Qigong is having. So the white spot for the lower dantien has a special location over the navel.
     
        This I learned by a transmission cd Jane Xin of Abundant Chi
     
        www.alqic.com
     
        was using in her currently running group. But Zhineng Qigong has differentiated much and stands, non rarely I think, for other stuff.
     
        Axel

        On Dec 11, 2007 12:49 AM, Ooi Kean <okhpen@yahoo. com> wrote:

            Different forms will have different location of lower dantians. Some martial art forms have 5 lower dantians. In ZQ the centre of our lower dantian is at the level between navel and mingmen. Most other forms are at a lower level.

            HYLT
            Kean Hin


            VIVI JUNAEDI <junaedi@mail. com> wrote:

                Anybody can explain where the location of lower dantian according to znqg? Is it behind the navel, or 2inch lower than the navel? I have the impression that it is at the navel level, which is different than other qigongs, yoga, etc. The books on zhineng never show where lower dantian is, is it possible that the authors are also confused?

Unquote

Hun yuan ling tong!
Kian Tee

********

Well, Kian, as it may be that this message will not be posted also, I give this further posting the content of which I have developed in the discussions here, also to this list.

As I am no friend so aggressive my behavior can be of dogmatic and unfree discussions I hope we will not have it with Kean Hin as the materials he gives are most interesting. But the pretension that he only translated following word for word Pang Ming's text I don't believe no longer.
It is like Buddha's word in mahayana as I learnt in yesterdays universitiy lecture: each master makes and alters also original contents.

As far as I could observe the method used the next master tries to use the imprint of the former master no longer describing it so that the former content is unspokenly working, but altered by further words.

Therefore saying the Master Liu is "deviating" is wrong. He does only what the others are also doing under the heading of Zhineng Qigong sprad by the many healing centers in China established and selected on the wish of the Chinese state but not allowed as an own movement fearing dynamics like in Falun Gong becoming a creed.

Now my text:

"Dantien is a place where the imagination of the master creates it for his pupils following the guidelines of his
school, if a real transmission is taking place and not left to the results of a training.

For not arousing to much sexual energy dantien is normally not in the pubic bone or deeper like
as the sexual chakra as it may cause loss of this energy. But nevertheless there are systems like the Hsintao of Bander safely creating the dantien of this secret Shaolin practice there for creating hot energy.

In LCUPD the dantien is automatically created as hot energy in mingmen which may even rise higher up to the adrenals in the down- and upgoing movements so that masterly skills of creating the non - hot dantien of Pang Ming near the spine is not necessary. You have it this way.

The further answer why there are different locations of this main dantien - in a certain way each chakra and even meridian points are some - differ is, as hinted by LCUPD, a question of the amount of energy you have and produce by your exercise. If you have enough the dantien goes higher and in the Hun yuan practice it is in the solar plexus and spreading more and more over the whole body.

You can follow these processes and development if you have established a feeling or even seeing of chi, the first may endure one year. Some need sexual abstinence for it, others use the natural chi feeling when the sexes are meeting, looking deep in the eyes, holding hands etc.

Axel"

Well, Kian Tee, I further followed in the steps of Kean Hin and his graphic, which is presumably original Pang Ming as I saw such pictures also in the a link of Jane for this website, on the first exercise of level II, the crane neck.

In my practice it developed in two ways concerning a more extended
bowing backwards as instructed for example by Mantak Chia similar to your words but in a sitting position:

a) a sort of folding or sudden collapse of the whole neck forward and much more as usual backward in a rather freely moving way

b) a sort of bending and bowing in a curbed line of the neck far more backward.

My idea was the looking with the eyes to the sky  to the sky when fishes are swallowed presumably also by cranes like herons are doing.

As these exercises shall be developed by observing these birds there are in a certain way a) and b). As these German and French cranes are not fotographed by chinese eyes these will perhaps still find other perspectives and sights.

So it is perhaps useful searching in google "pictures" them with chinese characters for still more typical pictures. What are the chinese characters for the crane?

The french text, containing much of my ideas and Ooi's graphic, is in te words of Maitre Zhou as follows also in my translation:

Tête de la grue

Crane neck

Vous allez imiter le mouvement gracile du déplacement de la tête et du cou de la grue. Rentrez le menton vers l'arrière.

Try to imitate the gracile movement of changing the position of the head and neck of the crance. Bring the chin backwards.

Soulevez le menton vers le haut et l'arrière tout en basculant la tête vers l'arrière.

Heighten the chin to the sky and backwards while folding also the head to the back.

Avancez le menton et le cou vers l'avant en gardant les épaules bien droites et en tirant légèrement les coudes vers l'arrière pour ouvrir (ou dégager) la poitrine.

Move the chin and the neck forward while the shoulders remain straight. The elbows draw slightly backwards for opening or letting go the belly.

Descendez le menton vers le bas en basculant lentement la tête vers l'avant et vers le bas.

Move the chin downwards by slowly folding the head forward and downwards.

Ramenez le menton contre le haut du sternum, vers l'arrière, en tirant légèrement les coudes et les épaules vers l'avant pour fermer (ou creuser) la poitrine.

Bring the chin backwards against the upper part of the sternum whilst you draw slightly the elbows and shoulders forward for closing (or hollowing) the belly.


Effectuez trois fois ce mouvement de rotation du cou et de la tête pour revenir à la position de départ.

Make this rotating movement of the neck and the head three times before you return to the
Beginning position.

The inverse movement I don't translate lacking the time for it.

Effectuez maintenant ce mouvement en sens inverse : Rentrez le menton et basculez la tête vers l'avant en tirant légèrement les bras et les épaules vers l'avant pour creuser la poitrine. Descendez le menton vers le bas, puis vers l'avant en commençant à reculer les coudes pour ouvrir la poitrine. La tête bascule en arrière ; vous rentrez le menton, tête droite. Effectuez trois fois ce mouvement de rotation. Retour à la position de départ.

Axel

Dear Kian and Axel,

Appreciate your efforts to share your experiences with others. We don't have to care too much about those stubborn minds, just pursue our own paths.

I'd be happy if every one of our class becomes a master in three years.
Life is more abundant!
顶端 Posted: 2008-05-05 20:00 | 51 楼
janej

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December 13, 2007
No, I am really not too concerned about Kean Hin's comments on ZBE/THCMM. I just felt that his comments may prevent some people from benefiting from this very simple yet very effective form of qi gong.

Thanks Axel, for the very nice pictures of the Crane. The crane is able to stand for hours on one leg even though its legs were thin... an indication of its strength and also its ability to keep still... qualities that we can do well to emulate.

Hun yuan ling tong!
Kian Tee

****************************

Hi Kian Tee, Axel
The discussion above reminds me of reports of great religious debates in Europe in the middle ages about how many angels could sit on the head of a pin.

I guess you didn't find time to investigate my request for information about my first tai chi school in Kota Kinabalu. Could you direct me anywhere that might help. Its very, very important to me. Thanks, Sorry to be a pest, but I don't know where else to turn.

Every teacher brings his own ideas and abilities into their lessons. When there is a central authority one can refer back to, its easy to compare styles, content and ability and come to a conclusion.  Its like the Catholic Church. If there is an argument  about doctrine, etc.anywhere, ask the Vatican.

Unfortunately, we are like the case of Protestant groups not long after the first schism . Because of the lack a central authority, its easy and inevitable that there will be differences in beliefs and practices. Over time, these will be magnified. This invites each offshoot to think that its method/techniques etc. are superior to everyone else. If every splinter group thinks this way,  before too many cycles have happened, all we are left with is chaos and ignorance.

The example that always comes to my mind is the total ruin for the most part of tai chi since it started to become popular in North America.  This culture has no  respect for anything or anyone. Therefore  after studying for a year or at most  two, it is normal that  a student will appointed themselves  a Master. This person might know 4% of what is required. He imparts his 4% to a student who does the same thing after a similar amount of time. You don't have to be a mathematician to realize how quickly, you get to zero.

What we have here presently is people gathering in groups, the leader wears a silk suit and everyone waves their arms and move slowly. But its a total joke. Many so called masters are ignorant that its even a martial art. For those who know that much, the vast majority don't know and therefore don't teach push hand exercises or any applications. "Its too violent".

Without the martial art basis, the precision and purpose of the various postures are meaningless. So before too long, all that's left is some dude in a silk suit leading a group of idiots moving slowly without any idea at all of what their doing. But it looks cool.

Two of my students in chi kung has done the same thing. The first studied with me for a very short time.; about a year. He had no real understanding beyond a VERY superficial level. He does not have my permission to teach. He does not practice at all and has no empathy to the content and the potential, yet he has decided to create a DVD. I was asked to proof read a page. It had around 25 mistakes- on  one page!

Another student has recently started teaching after taking a maximum of a dozen classes. This is incredible!

Axel,

When I learned Crane Neck from my first teacher, it was without any pretty pictures and was much more complete than your authority is instructing.  Some of his instructions contradict what I learned as well. If you're interested, another time, I'll  complete it for you and correct it  according to what I was taught.
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顶端 Posted: 2008-05-05 20:04 | 52 楼
janej

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Thanks Kian and Barry for sharing our feelings concerning Zhineng Qigong. Compared to Maitre Zhou translating and using Kean Hin is really hard work, but nevertheless I appreciate Ooi and Kean Hin especially in his function in Europe opening over the Netherlands other possibilities as Luke Chan and his monopole with many housewives without men in Germany. So my translation obviously middled his course to which he invited me - I overlooked it in my account and answered later - in Germany. He reminds me in his behavior of Wong Kiew Kit.

No, I really have no problem to respect him in his ways and will further use and translate his materials. You learn always something and get some ideas.

Axel
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顶端 Posted: 2008-05-05 20:05 | 53 楼
janej

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Barry,
You are tough! And you pointed out the reality!
But, there are some excellent masters too.
HYLT!
Felix
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顶端 Posted: 2008-05-05 20:05 | 54 楼
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2007.12.15

Well, Kian Tee,,

as you felt that messages are not put in the forum I like to ask you if this ones arrived to you and what you mean in their content:

1)

Thanks Kean Hin for your helpful criticism and explanations.

But having not the luck of a group to train I must pragmatically mix what I have got and can get in the present circumstances. So I can afford also this experiment with Master Liu and have to admit that I got results for which I partly waited for more than twenty years by this energy spending and not my efforts. I would be crazy not continue this although I do not neglect deficiencies. I am no bllind follower.

Axel


- Hide quoted text -
On Dec 15, 2007 1:54 PM, Ooi Kean <okhpen@yahoo.com> wrote:

I can understand that there are very little qigong material in English and therefore sometimes it is confusing for westerners to study qigong. However my suggestion has always been these:
1. NEVER combine other teachings with ZQ. ZQ is different from the traditional forms. If u read Elementary Guide u would realize that we work from outside to inside - the reversal of traditional forms.

2. ZQ is a human science. We NEVER imagine anything unusual inside our body during practice and we NEVER hold onto the qi column(s) that might appear during our practice because they are fake in ZQ's eyes. Of course that could be the essence of other forms. Then again, we are talking about ZQ here.

3. Learn Chinese, so that u can reach Dr Pang's material directly. So that u will know what is true eventually.

4. I maintain that I am not saying that Liu's middle channel is not middle channel, but it is definitely NOT ZQ's middle channel. ZQ's middle channel could only be reached with the hunyuan palace open but not Liu's.

HYLT

Take care,

okh

Schlotzhauer Axel <axelschlotzhauer@gmail.com> wrote:
Having the time to check also this, I mostly concur.

But it is not a tube what is created by Master Liu but a spiral descending in the body opening a downward showing triangle which expands also over the original shape of the head plateau. It is like picking in my experience in Tibetan buddhism on a needle the goddess. It works or does not work, the initiation works or does not work or ceases action after some time. For me this are more motivational methods to keep people ongoing and not a real realisation to which it may help. By Om Ah Hung you may get similar results with a tickling in the sexual organs as opening a middle channel. But the real one is in the spine.

But it is not only a fake at lower dantien of such warmth. By the focus of breath in the solar plexus you get the heat also there with a tendency going also into the heart as I know it from Mantak Chia as Lesser (lower) Greater (solar plexus) and Greatest Kan & Li or such satoris as described by Gerta Ital. And Chee Soo describes a yang channel descending from heaven at the forefront of the body like Hsintao is using a fourth eye presumably the Tian Men for making descend such hot heaven energy. Naturally also this should be in last respect an imagination, but learnable by books as that of Bander in a most easy way. It is only more likely by a group or guiding master. So it is in last respect a "hot" question throught all chakras, acupoints for head to the feet and elsewhere, but forgets the yin and upgoing earth breath and channel on the backside of the body which is mostly using the water method of Kumar Frantzis and his breathing exercises as I again more than theoretically but not applying his exercises by Chee Soo.

So you cannot say that Master Liu is not touching Hun yuan palace. In the lying breathing it is central in a most easy way if you are trained and his initiations, shared by a group of masters (a great rarity!) meet all places perhaps by a specialised master for it.

I will deliver later a quote of Maitre Zhou on Hun yuan as being in the middle between Shanzong or Dhanzong and navel presumably Zhongwan. But presumably this place is wandering upwards like the heat in the back -
also the spine is included in these exercise and a question especially to deal - from shortly above the navel as graphic 111 - I posted it in alqic.com - and this place.

I further agrree that as in any systems this is a side and preparatory exercise made the main one. But the socalled yang chi is more than this. Surely the group of Jane gets as a first trial in the West much more energy as in China itself as her stay showed. There is obviously a special empowerment by the mantra attracting enormous energies and less the fist as told. So this group can be very, very happy for this donation filling many energy holes for which others have to work incredibly for hours what Westerners usually are unable and also Chinese people in the West. Well, there are also old people.

But it seems that these exercises are kept away as this quote from below shows:


"I'm not against the so-called ZBE nor any breathing exercises. Not even in my message to Jane. Like I said ZBE is almost identical to the breathing exercise as introduced by Dr Pang in page 322 of Essence of Qigong (JinYi) as a supplementary exercise. In that book Dr Pang has introduced more than 20 breathing exercises. Interestingly he mentioned candidly in one of his lectures that "pick one of those and introduce as your creation and u will be a grandmaster."

Again I got this track by Chee Soo - the numbers of exercises differ - and materials of his master pupil
Howard Gibbon. But the storage of these energies, as promised, is not showed and it seems that there are for personal instruction are further layers given differently to different of his pupil lead associations and presumably as the usual family secrets in full transmission on his daughter.

Nothing against it. People underestimate mostly what they are really getting and think they pay to much. I will check it nearer. But by Master Liu important pieces are costless and freely in the net.

Is there a listing of these exercises and a translation. If not, I would be interested also in the chinese text and graphics. It may work also this way by the empowerment of the Chinese ideograms.

Axel

2)

My friend,

All roads lead to Beijing. But never take 2 routes at the same time.

HYLT

Take care,
okh
- Hide quoted text -


Schlotzhauer Axel <axelschlotzhauer@gmail.com> wrote:
In the discussion led I miss the point, if Pang Ming gave or gave not the transmission of the HYLT mantra Hun Yuan Ling Tong or uses only Kong Qing Lai Li.

As Petra Hinterthuer in her German Flying Crane writes in the new edition this old form created many dead persons dying by the traumata enlivened in the Chinese cultural revolution in doing this Qigong. The emotional reactions were to heavy. Is this a result of Level III? Her book obviiously gives only Level 1 and 2 as cut in pieces by the later Zhineng Qigong if you compare the exercises. But the crane begins already to fly a little bit as in Level III. Is Kean Hin therefore not giving this level in his book in deviation from Maitre Zhou and still less Jane Xin not the dangerous level II being a dangerous exercise? Well as Master Liu's exercise Level II is partly included now in the new combos of exercise 6 as the fundamental exercise opening also the other up to 6 Levels which Master Yuan Tze is freely purchasing high priced on your command for 1 - 6.

Ok, as I cannot open the scanned French text here the translation of Maitre Zhou p. 117:

"At the end of the trunc there are the digestive organes receiving the energies of the earth. At the beginning of the body the lungs are grasping the energies from the air we breathe, the energy of heaven. The Hun yuan place is the center where these energies are converted. It is better to see Hun yuan not as a point but a zone and also the dantiens. The energies of the five organs meet in Hun yuan."

The latter is the oneness aspect created also by the mantra though it is also a special section in the healing melody CD of Master Liu performed and supported by the group of masters he has being shut away like Boddhidharma with five of them for nine years as this sort of Buddha training for enlightenment transmitted by a Hindu and Himalayan master.

Pang Ming developed of hun yuan entirety theory of it on five levels. Well, Kabbalah and Western metaphysics have similar ideas. But here such unity of level 3 can be enlivened beyond the work
of six healing sounds. There are many such sounds but the work on three levels by the mantras of Level 3 given by Maitre Zhou are new for me as I know such work of Mantak Chia also. It mingled in a Tibetan meditation with the dantien created by Pang Ming on Thursday. This shows how interconnected these systems are also as a further intermingling was with the triangle described with a Tibetan goddess initation. This may be only personal or subjective as my fabrication. But it is nice to experience nevertheless.

Axel
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顶端 Posted: 2008-05-05 20:06 | 55 楼
janej

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December 16, 2007
I do receive messages posted to the Zhineng-qigong group forum. It is just that the reply I made in response to Kean Hin's posting for some reason got lost in cyber space and not 'censored' by kean Hin as I had initially thought.

Yes I have read your posting as it is delivered right into my mail box ....
Although I am ethnic Chinese, I am just like you unable to read the materials most of which are in Chinese but I am more fortunate as I live in a country where there are many schools that teaches qi gong and I have access to teachers from China who comes to teach us.

I can see that you are no 'blind follower' (to put in in your words) and with your western intellectual mind you have this tendency to make a lot of analysis between the various forms available. Previously I had posted the meditation: "Point" which points to the wisdom of keeping your mind focused and not scattered all over which can make you confused and lose confidence through over exposure to external truths which are relative.

I have chosen a different path: that of "inner contemplation" to overcome my problem of not being able to read written Chinese. Meditation does not require the skill to understand words . Therefore the practice of more "yang qi" will be of great help to still your mind and allow you to make a direct connection with "inner truth". In the book of changes "I-Ching" or Yi Jing", it is said that Inner Truth can move even "Pigs and Fishes"

Hun yuan ling tong!
Kian Tee
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顶端 Posted: 2008-05-05 20:06 | 56 楼
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December 17, 2007
Jane,
I have just purchased from your website: "Romance in middle dantian" and "Dream melody in lower dantian". Would appreciate it if you can give me instructions on how to use the CD's. In the earlier CD's I just do ZBE/THCMM and yang qi while the CD's play. As these two CD's are dantian conditioning, I should think the method would be different.

Thank you.
Hun yuan ling tong!
Kian Tee

You can still use them for your regular practice but with more awareness and focus on the Dantian areas. Romance in the Middle Dantian can also be used in LCUPCD & Zang Zhen Gui Yuan Fa while you should adapt the natural belly breathing into those forms. And the Dream Melody in the Lower Dantian can be used for Three Centers Merge, the No.5 & No.6 postures of Body & Mind Form and sitting meditation.

Thanks for the order. The package will be sent out soon.
Life is more abundant!
顶端 Posted: 2008-05-05 20:06 | 57 楼
janej

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December 25, 2007
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!

I find this post of Orea's most interesting:

Quote:
Most days when I bow to Professor Pang, he smiles at me.  I smile back.  The day he took my hand, my arthritis pain completely disappeared for at least 24 hours.  I didn't even need to take Aleve.

…. he took my hand again tonight and covered it with his in a warm clasp.  I placed my hand over his and we smiled at each other.  I felt a warm heart connection with him.  I don't know why this surprises me so, but it does.  I didn't know he was such a warm person.
Unquote

I remember reading about Dr. Pang's famous hand shake... and what Orea has experienced seems to be similar to the hand shake that sends healing qi into the recipient. As I read Orea's post I wondered if she had any prior knowledge of Dr. Pang's famous hand shake. I will be most grateful if Orea will be kind enough to let us know if she is or was aware of Dr. Pang's handshake before this experience of hers....

Hun yuan ling tong!
Kian Tee
Life is more abundant!
顶端 Posted: 2008-05-05 20:07 | 58 楼
janej

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December 27, 2007
I am just thinking of Orea’s visual and tactile experience of Dr. Pang and Master Liu and mindful of Jane’s advice that everything is an illusion…

Viewing the world through the mind is viewing it with a biased frame of reference dictated by our senses: visual, smell, audio, tactile (touch), & emotions (mind). I believe seeing Dr. Pang and experiencing his touch is can be real for the real mind (spiritual mind) unlike our normal mind is boundless. In our own experience we have all felt our mind’s ability to expand and encompass everything in the universe… therefore to be able to experience what Orea experienced is definitely possible.
If Orea’s experience is not brought about by any prior knowledge of the famous handshake and by her own admission, no prior knowledge of Dr. Pang personally except through the “Using Yishi” CD… her feeling of… “a warm heart connection” with Dr. Pang and her statement that she does not know that he is “such a warm person”…. I can see that what she felt is very real and she is undoubtedly sincere.

Thought for the day: "A sincere heart nurtures spiritual constancy"

Hun yuan ling tong!
Kian Tee

************************

Kian Tee,

I agree with you but also Jane. As the quality of picture seeing of her ladies show they are beginners in this work and have to be kept from dealing with them in an illusionary, unsecure and unfirm way. Their lotus flowers for such seeing and sensing are not already sufficiently developed enough for letting them unguided.

This can be seen by the treatment Orea is giving the guru picture of Master Liu. But she advanced over this stage
in the picture of Pang Ming and needs in my opinion more theory on such topics as in the Tibetan and kabbalist schools and certain forms of psychoanalysis is usual.

Questions of the group spirit or egregore have to be dealt also for getting a better group discipline and group consciousness here.

Thanks for your helpful intervention and happy new year.

Axel
Life is more abundant!
顶端 Posted: 2008-05-05 20:08 | 59 楼
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